I saw a whatsapp pick of a workmate on my guys phone, he said he used it to let someone leave him alone I got a bit jealous and now he for the first time in our relationship got distant and didn’t answer my calls or texts, I decided to leave him alone since he’s very busy with work but I saw him and it seems he’s chasing me down and came up to me, we had a good brief conversation, though short but I can sense he was happy to see me.
My girlfriend of almost a year broke up with me this week. I told her that I didn't want it but if that's what she wanted then she should go ahead. She wanted me to break up with her but I didn't want to because obviously, I want to be with her. We've been fighting for as long as I could remember. I know for sure that it's a trust issue and pretty sure this also lead to her losing respect for me. This isn't the first time we broke up so prior to this website, I've read multiple ones concerning how to get my ex back in the course of at least 5-6 months already. So I did what I know best right away and that's to not contact her. Her last message to me was that I should text her if I want to see her and talk in person. It's her offering me a closure conversation. As of now, I'm blocked from social media including Facebook messenger. I was needy in the relationship, I would always cry and beg. I would do everything for her and let her walk all over me. She would say the meanest things without a pause and I would just openly accept them because I blame myself for everything that's wrong in the relationship. She would start fights and always bring up past mistakes. I wasn't a bum in the relationship. I gave her all the attention that I could give, I put in effort and partly I think I've given too much and I was always available and thus lessening my value to her. I want to get her back. Please help. I'm hopeful to having another start with her but if I try everything and it doesn't work. I would gladly accept the break-up and happily move on. Thank you!
I meant a friend who directed me to Dr. Ikhine on the internet who help people to solve their problem and then i wrote to him and he said i should not worry about anything, that i should give him 48 hours for him to cast a spell for me and after that 48 hours my ex boyfriend called me on my office line and started begging. That is how my ex boy friend came back to me contact Dr.ikhinesolutionalter@gmail. com or WhatsApp +2347039543760 his help is guaranteed.
But now, he is pulling away. Slowly but surely. I’m so lost. I’m trying to give him space but I’m scared he will go away forever. I don’t want that so I’m keeping my shut but I’m just so confused. I don’t know what to do. I love him dearly so much still (I have not expressed that as I’m conscious of the consequences of these things especially with an ex and what we went through).
Hi Lauren, I have a question that is related in a big way, but not too related in others. You mentioned the concept of men doing the pursuing and women doing the recieving. I'm on my 4th Mars Venus book - Mars and Venus on a Date - and I noticed that this is a huge theme in the book. So my question is: What do you do if a guy gives you his number and says "call/text me"? When I first met my ex, I felt like I was pursuing him a bit because this is the way he approached me. We met working on a project, but to build off of our newfound friendship I attempted to flirt and create the opportunity for him to pursue me. We dated for about a year and I thought he could have been the one - until recently when we hit a wall in communicating that I felt I had to end it (since then I've been educating myself through therapy and Mars Venus books!). But, while at the time I never questioned the success/failure in me doing some reaching out, looking back now I'm wondering if that's something I could have done differently? The problem is, I wouldn't know how! It's a tricky situation. What happened was, like I said, he gave me his number (without me asking for it) and said to contact him. So I did and it went well! Then for our first date, from what I remember, I suggested that it would be nice to get to know eachother more. He told me to let him know when I wanted to go out. I pushed back this time and insisted that he should be the one asking me out, but he refused. To refrain from more back and forth, I planned the date. After that he became much more assertive and started asking me out and presenting me with ideas. But I'll be honest, I was a little turned off at his insecurity at first. He later told me he wanted to ask me out but was just very nervous, so I decided not to dwell on it and just appreciate that it worked out despite how it happened. But because I didn't want to do the pursuing, how would I have gotten him to do it?
Instead have your own interests to show him how exciting your life is, with or without him. "You want to be the fast-moving car that he wants to jump into, not the one sitting in the parking lot, waiting around," Trespicio says. Keep up your long runs on the weekends even if he wants to hang out, and don't expect (or nag) him to skip his weekly basketball games in favor of seeing you. "The most appealing thing to a man is a woman who has her own autonomy and strength," Kelman says. The more he sees that you have a fantastic life of your own, the more likely he'll want to jump in and be a part of it.
My gf of 5 years broke up with me a month ago. We are both 21. She said that she has lost feelings and doesn’t feel attracted to me anymore. She didn’t feel like a priority in my life and that i was not there a lot of the time. I know that i had been very insecure(because of my previous relationship) and unwittingly took her for granted over the past few months(work/college commitments). She loved me to bits and i did too but i’ve really hurt her.
Similarly, if he’s getting your attention, praise, sex or whatever just because… even with bad behavior, there is no incentive to want to get you back in an official way. There is no reason he would do anything different than he has been doing since what he’s been doing so far has worked well. In addition, giving in to him and giving him everything he wants just makes you look needy and desperate. He might be thinking, if she is so desperate to have me then maybe no one else wants her… and if no one else wants her… why should I?
He says that he was not comfortable being at his trueself with me. we were in a relationship for 3 years and now he says this.He's way too inconsistent about his thoughts and gives a list of reasons for the break up and he wants to be only FRIEDS with me at least for a while. it's been almost 4 months since we broke up, I've been pleading him all this while and today I decided to Start No Contact period for at least 2 - 3 months until December. Kindly help me in getting him back. I'm very much serious about this guy.Also please Suggest me if i'm doing it right.
Hi there, I have been reading tons of advice you guys offer to permanently get your ex back and recently me and my ex broke up 1 year and 8 months into the relationship. We broke up because she said that I didn't love myself, which I realize this now because I had so many insecurities that caused the energy between us to go downhill with my jealousy, trust issues, and depression. I realize all of mistakes now but the 1st week after our breakup I was super needy and desperate, I would contact her and make up lies to just see what she was doing and just to talk to her. I have recently started the no contact with her hoping that maybe she will miss me when she is wondering what I am up to. She told me that I need to move on and just do things that I wouldn't be able to do in relationship such as flirt with other girls, go to certain type of parties, talk to my friends constantly and to just have fun period. She says she has faith with us but she has no idea when she will feel ready to go back into a relationship with me. She also said I have to move on and let go and come back when I have a chance, "To let the bird fly away and if it's meant to be then the bird will fly back." I am just worried because from the looks of it she has already moved on, went to three parties already, and I know she is talking to this guy. I accept that she is doing all of this because I know she just wants to have fun because I used to be manipulative and controlling. I know all of my mistakes now and during this no contact period I want to work on myself and love myself. I accept the fact that if my ex don't want to get back together that I shouldn't sweat about it because I will find someone else, but she has made such a huge impact in my life that I just simply choose to be with her. She simply made me happy but I didn't make her happy. What could I do to fix all of this and perhaps start a new relationship in the future. I wont see her for 8 months because I will be in the army then after that I will be attending the same college as her. I hope that by the time I come back she will be single and had the fun she wanted to have so I can talk to her about giving us another chance. Thank you for you time.
my bf of a year and i decided to break up cuz we thought it was the healthiest option we had. we were in a long distance relationship and we both have depression. we talk to therapists once a week. he and i work almost everyday so didnt really get to talk to each other.(we also have like 8 hour time difference) we broke up over a phone call, he said that he stills loves me a lot and misses me. he told me to not delete all those pictures on FB cuz he wont as well and wont try to forget about me. i'm moving to Europe in 3 months(he lives in Europe) and he wants to see me when we close the gap. He said we could try to recover the relationship when we see each other and now we just have to give each other some space to work on ourselves and be stable. 4 days after we broke up, he sent me a message out of the blue asking is i was doing okay. i said i was fine and asked him if he wanted to talk. and he said he just wanted know. i know i have to go no contact at least for a month, but this break up doesnt feel like a real break up to me tbh. it just feels like a break. do i still have to go no contact and ignore his messages when he texts me? i wont initiate any contacts tho.
Been trying to slowly get my long distance ex back since January, and we’re on speaking terms again now, and even though that’s a huge step forward, I still have doubt. He’s always been a kind of distant person, and since he first reached out to me like 2 months back, I have initiated all conversations since then. I’m suspecting that’s what you call the hot and cold-treatment? Still, I really wanna get him to open up and finally realize that he loves me after all. If y’all have any more tips, I’d love to hear them.
What makes you irreplaceable in the eyes of your man? Your ability to reach deep into the depths of who he is and inspire him. To put it more bluntly, you must offer something that is much more rare and valuable than sex if you want him to treat you as something important in his life. I mean … duh, right? And yet this obvious truth gets distorted and overlooked.
Everyone recognizes when someone has an agenda, it’s just something our intuition picks up on and it immediately puts us off. Think about how you feel when someone approaches you and tries to sell something. Your first instinct is typically to get far away from them. It doesn’t matter how nice and friendly they are, you can’t trust them because you know they want something out of you.
Hi Andilla, Definitely, I've seen this work to bring couples back together! That's why I wrote the blog. This is the technique my dad, John Gray, has been teaching with success for over 30 years helping couples reunite. It's not going to work for every relationship - but this is the step I recommend people take if you want your ex back. No one wants to get back into a relationship that doesn't work…people want change, they want assurance of change so that they can trust you again and build something better. When it comes to friends with your ex? That depends on the relationship. :-)...
Me and my 2 years girlfriend broke up in August because she felt that I don’t need her. I basically do all the don’ts that were outlined. I was angry back then because she didn’t say the reason she wants to brake up. I did most of the deadly miskates you mentioned above i.e texting, begging, show affection, name calling. What can I do to win her back after what I did?
Can you become close friends with your ex? My ex broke up with me but we were best friends. He is with someone new but is still contacting me. I don’t know if it’s just for friendship or does he miss our relationship? He sends me messages about our serie that we watched together, but the conversation is short and not deep at all. I still love him, and I don’t know what to do?
My boyfriend and i were dating for more than a year and we are still young, we had always had fights and argue a lot and thats why he cheated on me, but we got back together because i decided to give him another chance. after our 1 year anniversary he broke up with me and said "us being together would make you more stressed and we should end it" after that i have been so needy and desperate and he has pushed me away futher, but i know that what we had before our relationship was great, and he truly loved me and gave everything to me. but i know before we dated he was the playboy type to talk to anyone and try to get in with anyone, and i can kind of see it happening now but he says he wont move on, but he clearly started we will never ever be together again, even in the future. what should i do?
This is the power of jealousy. Now, I am NOT recommending that you go out and date someone new. I am recommending that you drop certain hints in your communication with your ex boyfriend that you are out meeting new people. The key to this is that YOU CAN’T BE OBVIOUS. Do you think you will get very far if you rub the fact that you are out and about with other guys? The answer is no. There is a subtle art to incorporating jealousy texts into your conversations and I am going to teach you that art.
Based on what you’re saying, it doesn’t sound like there’s a good chance at this point of reconciliation due to his negative impression of you. I suggest giving him this year to do no contact and picking yourself up, since you will definitely still see him again when he gets back from his studies abroad. Spend this time working on your issues, so that when you cross paths again, you’d be a different person from who you were a year ago, and which may lead to easier chances of re-igniting the relationship romance.
So, my question is this. I've discovered this information only recently, and my ex left me late last year. The winter and early spring was rough, and I broke a lot of rules. I finally tried no contact as long as possible, and didn't contact her from April till June. I've done a lot of self improvement, but when I broke and finally reached out to her, I think I might have screwed up the process somehow. I haven't even brought up our past at all, and have been trying just small talk here and there, but she seems to be withdrawing from me again. Should I try the no contact period again? Or is there some other way I can right the course of the process to give myself the best chance of doing things the right way?
I was clingy, had low self esteem, needy and jealous. The break up was shocking, he took a week and a half to tell me if he wanted space or if he wanted a break up. He was chatting with an 18 year old. He was telling me he doesn't love me anymore and when he hug me he said he wish he could feel by there is nothing, he withdrew from me emotionally 2 months before we broke up. When I was packing his stuff I found something he wrote that he didn't find me attractive. After the break up I was trying to convince him and did testing terrorism until he said to text him only when it's business related. So did one week no contact and called to talk to him about the outstanding bill I was still upset and sent a text to apologize. He called next day and he was upset and sent a text apologizing. I did 2 weeks no contact and called yesterday since he been telling ppl that I wasn't paying him attention and also thinks I do by love him. So I called and ask if we can meet weekend to talk and he said yes. He still have stuff at my place and he coming to pick some up. Today I went to his work to get my keys from him because he still had my keys. He couldn't look at me but did when he hand me my keys, I was acting happy. He said so whenever I needn't get something from the house inbred to contact you and I replied yes I am paying the rent and so I went and havnt made contact however he said he will come weekend. My ex came over for some of his stuff was amazed how the house looked, I did some rearranging. He said twice that the house looks nice and that I looked happy and then stated that he was probably the one holding me back. He said this about 2 times, the second time he said it I ask why he is saying something like that and he said he said he know perhaps he just feels guilty and so I told him that he wasn't holding me back and then he notice I had a mini burn on my hand and ask me what happened I told him I got burnt from the stove. And so ..
Last year I broke up with my girlfriend due to many misunderstandings and I remember very well how hard I had been fighting to get her back. She changed her number, changed her job so that I don’t visit her office and none of her friends would give me any information about her. The only thing I could do was to go find help from anywhere, so i looked for a way to get her back then a friend recommended me to contact lorddonaldspelltemple@ gmail. com that he will help me and as my friend said, lorddonaldspelltemple helped me to bring back my girlfriend just in 3 days, I now have her back and this is the biggest joy of my life
#1 Be fun and easy going. Guys are much less complicated than women, that much is for certain. They like things to be easy going and relaxed. Which means they don’t really want to commit to someone who’s going to add stress to their life. So be easy going and keep things light and fun. He’ll be much more willing to commit. [Read: 10 ways to prove that you’re girlfriend material]
Whether she talks a lot or is on the quiet side, ALL women want to be heard. If you’re not the greatest listener, get to work on these skills. First, put away the phone. Second, focus on what she’s saying and how she’s feeling. Third, ask questions to clarify and draw her out. Finally, reflect back on what you’ve heard in your own words. You’ll show her how important she is to you.
Risk factor: Medium to high. If he's a jerk, he may look at this as an opportunity for some bed-hopping, single-guy abandon. He may find he likes it better when you're not around and move to make it a permanent condition. If that happens, he's not worth the price of your return ticket. Besides, if you haven't had The Talk, no one's stopping you from staying on an extra week and having that little vacation fling with a lusty young cabana boy. If that's what you want, go for it.
My first boyfriend actually hated himself and was suicidal, and no matter what I did to support him and how much I loved him, I couldn’t actually make him love himself. And to be honest it ended up affecting me too and with other life circumstances (friendsh*ts, bad relationship with my mom at the time) I got so depressed myself that I also had suicidal thoughts. It was horrible. And it`s been some time and things have changed for me, but I just wanted to say I`ve both seen and learned myself the importance of self love and being committed to ourselves!
First, your acquaintances will unfollow you and seeing the negativity, they won’t even want to go near you or introduce new people to you. Second, new friends will all know that you’re sad and don’t want to know you more or else they’ll get infected with your sadness. Third, for the friends who really care about you — you can just go the traditional way and meetup with them and cry your eyes out.
Hi, I had been dating a guy for 2.5 years, he’s a Muslim and I’m a Christian,during this time he was completely in love with me and he has done a lottttt of things to keep me happy and to show how much he loves me... because he was never like this and I could feel it and even his family and friends had told me that he has never been soooo serious before for any girl and I myself felt his love for me then... and I had amazing connections with his family and even most of his relatives side knew me.. though we used to fight a lot we always managed to get back and love each other more.. but the few days before the breakup we had been fighting and that is when he went to his cousins place far from where we live .. he stayed at his ex’s place who is his cousin and he had dated her for 2 years before me ... and he suddenly started getting feelings for her and they were so strong that he went and told her mom that he wants to get married to her and even kissed her and stuff ... but then after he came back from there he has ditched her a million times already by kissing me and getting physical with me and even after that girl knew this she accepted him like twice .. and when there were problems in their relationship ( now it’s almost 2 months since we broke up and since he’s got into a relation with her ) he used to come to me asking if I will or will not give him another chance and that he loves me .. this has happened twice and both the times I used to agree and then we used to get physical ...I have come out of my country that means we don’t meet and he doesn’t even talk ( I have broken 4 rules which are mentioned above because I hadn’t read the article before) so now my ex says he doesn’t want me at all and he doesn’t love me...and again their marriage is fixed like they say they’ll get married after 5 years once he has achieved something in life ..both of us are 20 and his present girlfriend is 18...in this situation where families are involved and where he claims to love her soooo much will is till be able to get him back? Please help ... is it still possible ?
My boyfriend of almost four years broke up with me and I’m so sad. He’s been reaching out to check on me for the first four days and then just dropped off. How would this article apply to my situation? I’m not clinging to the hope of him coming back, but there’s always a chance he’ll miss me and realize what he lost. I’ve been initiating no contact with him.
Have conversations that are substantive. In order to not seem like you are reading your bio or asking them interrogative questions, have conversations in a story telling style. Tell stories about life markers and experiences that shifted your perspective and impacted your personality. If you want a relationship with short term potential, stick with small talk. But if you are truly ready for something real, you’ve got to get real. That is how you will truly connect on a date.
Contemporary relationship for men can be very challenging. For one, the relationships between men and women have radically transformed in the last 50 years with women striving for personal development, and men often unsure of the role to play with women partners. Relationships require new ways of thinking and growing to be sustained and flourishing.
I’m sorry Eileen, i keep bugging…but he thinks I’m playing mind games w him bc I messed up in the beginning and it was a complete misunderstanding… and said if I don’t get in touch with him that he will find someone else to keep himself from getting depressed. It’s funny bc ever since I been giving him space, he been trying to text and call me alot…this guy is very difficult since I used to push him away bc I felt like I was not good enough for him…I’m trying to b positive
I don't know what I want. My ex broke my heart 8 months ago after a relationship of 2 years. We were the best friends. After the breakup he had a new girlfriend after 1 month. They broke up 3 months ago because she cheated. He came back to me, wanted all my attention, but I told him I still have feelings for him but I don't want him back. He accepted it but was mad because he thought I had someone new. He went back with the girl who cheated. Then I decided I didn't want him in my life anymore. I blocked him and deleted him on social media. The problem is that we have a common group of friends. Last week he was posting every day a snapchat in the group. Yesterday he send me a message with an artist in and the sentence 'I think you would like this artist.' Today I saw I had a missed facetime-call from him. To his bestfriend he said he regretted the way we broke up and the way we treat eachother the last months.. He is still together with this girl.
Once you’re in a relationship, don’t make the mistake of thinking your work is complete. Taking your relationship for granted will create all kinds of issues. To ensure your relationship grows and thrives, you must pay close attention to it. Expecting something to flourish without giving it the care and attention it needs, is like planting an orchid, never watering it or tending to it and expecting it to bloom.
So when I hear someone tell me “I want my ex back because they are the most amazing person in the world and quite possibly my soul mate” I always remind those people that they are pretty amazing too! If your ex fell for you, if you were able to inspire and seduce them the first time around, it means that you have tons of qualities to offer as well.
I have a question that I'm struggling to find the answer to. About 2 days into no contact my ex asked me to come by and pick up some of my stuff I left behind at her place. Around 5 days in she found someone had searched for porn websites in the browser search history on her PS3. She accused me and wanted an explanation, though I am certain it wasn't me. I don't watch porn, let alone on my gf's playstation. I didn't reply on both occasions, and haven't heard from her since. I'm coming up on 30 days soon, and I've drafted a couple elephant letters. So my question is: Do I address these false allegations in the letter? Or simply ignore them and address them only if they come up again in the future? I feel like both options have potential pros and cons, so I need a deciding factor. Thanks :)
When you follow the no contact rule, you give him the time and space to miss you. This can only happen in your absence, not in your presence. By reaching out too soon, you risk falling into a post-relationship relationship. Meaning you talk on occasion and you hang out from time to time, but your relationship is totally undefined and the needle doesn’t seem to be moving in one direction or the other. That’s because you’re both lacking clarity and that’s because you need a period of no contact to get your minds straight. If you don’t take this time, everything will remain cloudy and confusing.
Be calm and confident in yourself and what you think you can contribute to her life. In the time you've taken to improve yourself, hopefully you will have evidence of that change. If the cause of your breakup was that you did not have enough time for her, show that you've altered your work schedule and made time to volunteer or pick up that sailing hobby you've always dreamed about. That will show you're willing to make time for things that matter to you. See where I'm going with this?
My bf and I ‘ve been together for 1.5 year in a distance relationship but we both had met each other a lot as he come to visit once a year, and now we just break up for 2 weeks ago cuz of he didn’t have enough time for me then i asked him for break up. After that i realise that i love him a lot and i don’t want to lose him but he said we can’t get through this again because he doesn’t have enough time for me , he need to study more. and during we were together we always flight , but i still chat ask him for a chance but he said he can’t do this again. He said he still loves me but he want me to have someone who can fulfil my need. What should i do , should i start to distance from him? But i feel hard cus we are on a distance relationship.
Same thing when you're going out and meeting people or when you're on the first couple of dates. You don't need to tell him your three biggest life accomplishments on that first date. Spread it out a little bit. Keep him wanting more. And when he believes there's more depth to you, when he knows he wants to keep seeing you... he's going to miss you. He's going to want to dive into that complex person that is you.
This is absolutely no excuse for you to be cheated on. Your independence is important and if he wanted the attention he should have spoken to you about this before he cheated instead of cheating and then placing blame on you. This is narcissistic behavior and I encourage you to stay strong. If you need further help you can reach out to me for a private coaching session here so I can guide you towards working through this. https://www.apolloniaponti.com/private-coaching-2/
In my personal life, I meet all sorts of people. Some people are easy and fun to be around … I can spend hours with them, talking about things, laughing about things, and just genuinely enjoying their company. Being around them doesn’t require effort and I don’t want anything from them. I would have just as much fun driving in the car with them and chatting as I would doing something “exciting.”
Here’s the thing about relationships — they require another person with their own opinions and feelings. "I also like to get my clients to appreciate that your ex is a free agent," Engler says. And your former flame’s ideas about the breakup may not match your own. "You need to give your former partner space to make a decision," says Stubbs. "You have to respect their autonomy in regards to their feelings and timeframe." In other words, while you may have easily come to the realization that you can’t live without them, they may not have the same feelings about you.
It was good, but the toxic feelings from the first breakup followed us wherever we went. Mary had let go of that fun-in-the-sun, summer-fling, freewheelin’ attitude I had desperately tried and failed to bring to our last relationship. She had made new friends and learned valuable lessons since our breakup, the biggest one being that guys who try to hold on to their high school ex-girlfriends are as dumb as they are stupid.
Now, here’s the problem with you getting married to Buddy: it’s not something you want to commit to. Buddy still hasn’t gotten his career together enough, and there are issues in the dynamics that you don’t feel good about. Maybe it’s because you really just don’t see him as husband material (since you barely see him as boyfriend material) and him being a whiny doormat to get his way hasn’t helped this a bit.
Eventually, we had a massive fight that lasted hours over the phone and he broke up with me, saying that he was too scared and hurt to keep trying as he felt we would always have the same problems, over and over again. It hurt so bad, and I begged during the entire fight but left him alone immediately after the break-up, saying that I was sorry and that I would miss him and his family. He told me that despite us both loving each other, we couldn't continue and that I would never get another chance.
It's unlikely that given the length of the relationship, she would move on so quickly. Use this time to give her space while working on making those changes that would not only improve her views of you but also yourself as a person. Show her these changes and prove to her from there that you're worth a second chance after. Remember to use actions and not words as she would be tired of hearing words at this point, and avoid getting desperate or needy if she initially pushes you away.
Let a woman reveal her true intentions on the very first date. Instead of a fancy dinner, take her for a light breakfast such as coffee and a simple pastry. See if potential exists by having her engage with your intellect and not your wallet. If there is interest on both parts then work your way up to the bells and whistles where she will appreciate your efforts more.
All anyone really wants is to feel OK, and most of us don’t. When a woman worries and needs constant reassurance, it comes from feeling from “I am not OK” and the feeling beneath that is fear. What makes it so destructive is that it’s not an overwhelming, gripping fear; it’s a vague feeling of unease. It’s so quiet and subtle you may not even realize it’s there. You know how sometimes you’ll go to take a sip of water and you literally can’t stop chugging? You didn’t even realize you were thirsty, it’s only when you begin to quench the silent thirst that you realize how potent it was. That’s kind of what’s at play here.
Everything was going very fine, and suddenly he messaged me that he doesn’t even want to be with me anymore because he doesn’t feel for me the same way he did. Everyday he was like, he is not going to come back and all. When i came from my home to my college, he is also in the same college, we met again, but still he was like doesn’t have feelings. We spent time as he was clearing the facts that he doesn’t feel for me but still care for me. We shared some intimate moments and he is like that was only one moment, that’s it. How come feelings got vanished suddenly. We never fought and I supported him a lot in every aspect. i have tried so many things to save this relation.